BISFF Correspondence 通信计划
This program involves conducting brief email interviews with the directors of the international films featured in the festival, in lieu of the traditional Q&A session that follows the screenings. Through this program, we hope to provide a platform for filmmakers to discuss their work and share their insights with our audience in China.
为了跨越种种障碍，开辟更多交流空间，我们设置了“BISFF Correspondence 通信计划”，对部分国际单元的参展作者进行系列访谈，这些访谈将在作品放映后发布在联展各个媒体平台。
Hangnail｜倒刺
Hou Lam Tsui
2024｜0:06:53｜Hong Kong｜English｜International Premiere
Director: Hou Lam Tsui
Interviewer: Yuxuan Li
Coordinator & Editor: Suliko
导演：徐皓霖
采访、整理：李雨萱
统筹、编辑：苏丽珂
*注：本篇采访导演以英语和繁体中文回复，部分译名、用字与标点符号使用按简体中文规范或习惯进行编校
Q1: What is the origin of the title Hangnail ? What was your inspiration for this film?
片名《倒刺》的来源和短片创作的灵感来源是什么？
A1: A hangnail can be negligible or perplexing. The pain of pulling a hangnail may seem rather insignificant, and sometimes I think that’s how some people perceive the experiences of women; they believe we’re making a big fuss.
In the past few years, my work has centred on women's experiences and gender politics. During the conceptualisation of "Hangnail," I was occasionally forced to revisit some classics that I found disturbing, which became the antithesis of the short film. At times, I was triggered by other people's words—some of which became the artificial male voice with a British accent in the film—prompting me to reflect on them.
I also discovered some fascinating works, such as Osaki Midori's "Wandering in the Seventh Realm," a relatively lesser-known novel. I was captivated by the small, small world she constructed: a humid, dim environment where her heroine grapples with distress over a crush on a young man, and the many persimmons she eats throughout the day—an uncontrollable agony that can only be temporarily distracted by constant eating. Kate Zambreno's "Heroines" also touched me deeply. Zambreno writes in an almost hysterical mumble about her failure and dilemma as a female writer, juxtaposing her situation with that of the wives of famous writers and artists. She re-examines their roles as creators, beyond being wives and muses, yet ultimately forgotten and erased amid the legacy of arts and literature. The notion of the fictional girl/heroine has provided a concrete structure and backbone for my work, "Hangnail," expanding on my ongoing research interests.
倒刺有时无伤大雅，有时则甚为扰人。把刺状表皮拔掉的痛楚或许微不足道，有时候我感觉这就是他人看待女性处境的一种态度，觉得我们无病呻吟。
这几年我的创作一直围绕女性的经历和性别政治展开。构思《倒刺》期间，有时我被迫重温一些令人气忿又无语的经典名作，成为短片中的反面教材，有时我受他人的说话所刺激（有些话成为了影片里的人工英国腔男声），引导我反思。
与此同时，我发掘到一些很有意思的作品，例如尾崎翠的《第七官界彷徨》，这部小说较为鲜为人知，我被她所建构出来的小小世界所撼动，那个世界潮湿而昏暗，她写女主角因为暗恋少年而惆怅纠结，一整天吃下不知多少过柿子，这种只得透过不断进食去分散注意力而无法自控的痛苦触动我；以及 Kate Zambreno 的 Heroines，同样深深地打动着我，Zambreno 以一种几乎歇斯底里般的喃喃自语书写自己作为写作者的失败与困境，同时将自己的处境与著名作家和艺术家的妻子的处境并置，重新审视她们作为男性的妻子和灵感缪斯以外，作为创作者的身份，却最终没法在文学艺术史名册中占一席位。虚构女孩和 heroine 一概念亦为《倒刺》提供了一个较为清晰的结构和骨干，延伸自身的创作研究和关注。
Q2: The film uses a variety of forms and materials, including 2D and 3D animation, interspersed with different live footage. How did you choose where to use animation or real photo?
影片中用到了多种表现形式与材料，有二维和三维动画，穿插叠化不同的实拍素材。您是如何选择在何处使用动画或实拍照片形式的？
A2: The process is actually quite random and spontaneous. I usually start with the text first and then decide on the visuals later; sometimes the imagery will echo the text, while other times it will be presented in a misplaced way. Visually, I think the approach this time is more like a collage, juxtaposing and mixing various formats. The 3D animation (the heart of the magical girl!) in particular highlights the differences among different forms, creating an interesting narrative interwoven through this collage.
This time, I used many film photographs that I took a long time ago while traveling in Europe and studying abroad in the UK (more than five years ago): fragments of life, stone statues weathering outdoors, and those standing in museums. I probably didn't realise that they would appear in my work in such a way, but I think it was fate. I have also included some recent photographs of a fountain near where I live, along with some objects, which were taken and selected in response to the script.
When I made this short film, I was pursuing my MFA at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. I often visited the university library, and the idea of scanning the pages and covers of books came to me. University libraries are always full of old, tattered hardcover books, and I scanned the covers of several of them. Some images in these books are not directly related to the monologues but are rather an aesthetic choice.
其实过程比较随性和即兴。影像作品我通常会先构思文本，再决定视觉的处理，有时候画面会（尝试）呼应文字，有时候则以一种错开或错置的方式呈现。视觉方面，我觉得这次比较接近一种拼贴的方式，糅合不同的素材，尤其是三维动画（魔法少女的心！），我觉得可以突出不同素材之间的差异，而这种画面上的差异性不一定需要被消融，并置在一起可以交织成一个新鲜的叙事。
这次用了很多颇久以前欧旅和在英国留学时（算起来都超过五年了）拍下的胶卷照片：生活的片段、在外饱受风吹雨打以及伫立在美术馆的石雕像。这些照片我以前大概是没想过它们会以这样的方式出现于我之后的作品里面，我觉得可能是缘分。我也有把一些新拍的照片放进去，拍家附近的喷泉，拍一些物件，这些则是因应文本而拍下来的影像。
制作这部短片时我正在香港中文大学读艺术硕士，经常流连大学的图书馆，然后又萌生了把书页和封面扫描的念头。大学的图书馆总会特别多破破旧旧的烫金精装书，我也把好几本的封面扫描了。部分书的影像也跟文本的独白没有直接的联系，是美学上的考量。
Hangnail, Hou Lam Tsui, 2024
Q3: There is a shot of real hair in the middle of the film, and the narrator says "You asked if I am actually real, I don't care." Finally, the hair was connected to Eva. Your previous film Rabu Rabu, was a video for a fictional love game, also featuring Eva as the protagonist. What is the connection between these two works and the selection of hair and Eva?
影片中间有一段实拍的头发，旁白说“You asked if I am actually real, I don’t care.” （你问我是否真实存在，我并不在乎！），最后从发丝联系到 Eva。我们关注到您的前作 Rabu Rabu，一部虚构恋爱游戏的录像，也是以 Eva 为主角。您的这两部作品，以及头发和 Eva 素材的选用之间有什么联系？
A3: After completing "Rabu Rabu," I realised that I was falling into the same trap as all other gal-games/visual novels. Eva, like all game heroines, is portrayed as a female character existing in the game solely to fulfil certain purposes—to gain the attraction and pursuit of the player (the male protagonist). Although her ultimate goal in the game may not be to fall in love, she still has a clear mission and role as a "hacker." In the world of Rabu Rabu, she eventually gains consciousness and challenges the original romantic narrative. However, this subversion does not make Eva feel like a fully realised character with flesh and bone. I realised that her every line of dialogue seemed too meticulously crafted. So, who is Eva? What would her voice sound like? What kind of story would she tell us? These questions became the starting point for "Hangnail."
I initially intended for this to be a sequel to "Rabu Rabu," but it ended up diverging further and further from its predecessor, which was probably a happy accident. The cropped images that appear at the end of "Hangnail" serve as a bit of an Easter egg. I chose to use photos from the previous shooting of "Rabu Rabu," intentionally preserving the traces of the humble makeshift studio.
The wig serves as a thread connecting the two works. The wig that appears in "Hangnail" is the same one worn by Eva in "Rabu Rabu." Wearing a purple wig naturally creates a sense of fictionality, falseness, and distortion, reminiscent of a familiar anime character, or like Natalie Portman in "Closer." The film becomes a repetitive journey between what we know to be real and what we know to be fictional. We live in the real world, but our experiences mirror those of heroines in a virtual dimension, where every move we make can be labelled as fake and pretentious. A woman must carefully navigate societal expectations and conceal herself to be seen as acceptable, but not so much that she cannot reveal her genuine and relatable side. Yet, no matter how careful she is, it is never truly up to her to cross the line—she is never real enough.
完成 Rabu Rabu 后，我发现我犯下所有文字恋爱游戏设计一模一样的毛病，Eva 如同世间上的游戏女主角一般，女性角色的塑造总是具备某种功能性，存在于游戏之中只为博取荧幕前的玩家（男主角）的吸引和追求。尽管这次她在游戏里的最终目的或许不再是谈恋爱，但她作为一名“骇客”还是带着明确的任务与分工。在 Rabu Rabu 的世界里，她最终获得了意识，打破原有的恋爱叙事。然而，这种颠覆仍无法让 Eva 变得有血有肉。我意识到，她的每一句对白似乎过于精心设计。那么，到底 Eva 到底是谁？她的声音会是怎样的？她会跟我们讲述怎样的故事呢？这些问题也是《倒刺》的起点。
我本来是希望这部作品成为一个类似续章的存在，但结果有种越走越远的感觉，渐渐跟前作看似没有半点关系，可能也算是一个开心的意外。《倒刺》结尾出现的局部影像有点变成一个彩蛋的存在，我选用了之前拍 Rabu Rabu 的女主角时的局部照片，特意保留了简陋的临时影棚的痕迹。
假发是串连起两部作品的一个线索。《倒刺》出现的假发是 Rabu Rabu 的 Eva 所佩戴的假发。戴上紫色的假发，自然就会形塑出一种堆砌、虚假、失真的感觉，像熟悉的动漫女角，像娜塔莉·波特曼在《偷心》（Closer）里所扮演的鲍伯头女郎。而这部影片反覆游走于我们所认知的真实与虚构。活在现实世界的我们，亦似乎跟活在二次元世界的虚拟女孩一样，一举一动都有可能被贴上虚假和做作标签。女性必须小心谨慎地驾驭社会的期望，隐藏自己，才能被视为 “可接受”，但又不能隐藏太多，以免无法展现她 “真诚 ”又“亲切”的一面。不过，她再小心翼翼，越界线从来都不是由她决定的——她永远都不够真实。
Q4: The film mentions Tamagotchi, and then the narrator says, "I have died many times too, like a true masterpiece’s heroine," and I feel that this paragraph may be very close to your own experience. Do you perceive gender politics or a connection to yourself in fictional games?
影片中提到了游戏机拓麻歌子，而后旁白说“我也死掉太多次了，宛如一个真正的女主角”，我感到这一段或许与您自身经验十分贴近。您是否在虚构游戏中察觉到性别政治，或与自身的联系？
A4: The personal is collective. The personal is political. The creation of fiction, whether in games or literature, serves as a mirror to the real world, reflecting both fiction and reality. As Matthew Salesses mentions in "Craft in the Real World: Rethinking Fiction Writing and Workshopping," "Even the choice to write about something completely imaginary is a choice made by someone reacting to the world in which they live, by fantasizing about another." In other words, fiction cannot be divorced from reality; it embodies the pain, desires, and prejudices of the real world, both good and bad.
It's hard for me to claim that this line has any direct connection to my life, but as a reader and audience member, I often struggle to comprehend the fates of heroines portrayed by male creators. I try to enter the inner worlds of these fictional girls: if they could break the fourth wall, what would they say? In various forms of artistic creation, it is not difficult to see male creators deliberately romanticising female death or arranging for female characters to meet tragic ends—especially in Western opera, where the female protagonist often sings about her own death before she meets her fate.
The line "I have died many times too, like a true masterpiece’s heroine" is a monologue conceived by overlapping the situations of countless heroines, which goes back to the idea that "the personal is political" as I mentioned in the beginning.
个人的经历是有公共性的，是政治性的。虚构的创作，不论是游戏也好，文学也好，在某种意义上和现实世界相互对照，虚构与真实，成为一面镜子。就如 Matthew Salesses 在 Craft in the Real World: Rethinking Fiction Writing and Workshopping 一书提到即使选择书写完全虚构的东西，也是一个人对自己身处的世界所做出回应以及对另一个世界的幻想。换句话说，虚构脱离不了现实，现实世界的痛苦、欲望、偏见，好的坏的，好坏掺半的。
我很难说这句旁白跟我的人生有什么直接的连结，但我作为一名读者，一名观众，我很多时候也无法理解男创作者塑造给女角色的命运，我尝试代入这些虚构女孩的内心世界，若她们可以打破第四面墙，她们会讲什么呢？在不同形式的艺术创作中，也不难看到男创作者刻意浪漫化女性死亡，或是刻意安排女角色迎来死亡的悲惨结局，特别是西洋歌剧，女主角总是要在死去前吟唱自己的死亡，迎接自己的结局。
“我也死掉太多次了，宛如一个真正的女主角。”一句是将无数虚构女孩的处境重叠在一起而构思而成的独白，也回到我开头所讲的——个人的即政治的。
Hangnail, Hou Lam Tsui, 2024
Q5: You mentioned Susan Sontag's discussion of truth and invention. What are the four items you chose to represent? Do you prefer to focus on the real expression of truth, or the fictional invention?
您提到了苏珊·桑塔格（Susan Sontag）讨论的真实与虚构，画面中您选取的四件物品分别代表什么？您更倾向于聚焦于现实的真实表达，还是虚构的创造？
A5: I believe that fiction offers the possibility to reveal the truth. Fictionality can be one of the channels through which truth is presented, and truth is not limited to documentary forms or factual representations. Susan Sontag’s conversation with John Berger about the concept of storytelling is interesting in that, for Sontag, storytelling implies both a stack of lies and the possibility of truth—two distinct possibilities. In her book "Women, Native, Other," Trinh T. Minh-ha also mentions that story speaks of truth, while fact represents history. Perhaps the point of contention is not whether story or history is closer to the truth, but rather understanding who has the right to write History, the imbalance of power relations, and the alternative possibilities of telling the truth beyond history and facts.
Returning to the four objects captured in the film (in order of appearance): a perfume bottle, a Sailor Moon perfume bottle, a magical girl toy (I believe it’s from Pretty Cure), and an old brass candle holder. These objects constantly hover between the real world and the virtual world. Which of these objects belongs to the ordinary girl, and which is owned by the magical girl? My previous works (sculpture and moving image) have also dealt with the figure of the magical girl, and I have a personal collection of related toys and objects that remind me of magical girl toys. The magical girl, as a fictional being, is equally complex. As a pop culture icon derived from witches, she embodies, on one hand, a tamed and safe image—a product of the male gaze and heterosexual desire. Yet, at the same time, the magical girl offers an escapist and sparkling fantasy for girls to wave their wands at, imagining the possibilities that our (magical) power can bring.
我认为虚构提供了揭露真实/真相（truth）的一种可能性。这种可能性某些时候并未能完全让他人接纳，虚构性可以成为盛载真实的其中一个渠道，真实并不限于透过纪实、事实等的方式呈现。苏珊·桑塔格与约翰·伯格（John Berger）围绕说故事一概念而展开的对谈很有意思，对桑塔格而言，故事同时意味着堆砌而成的谎言以及事情的真相两个截然不同的可能性。郑明河（Trinh T. Minh-Ha）亦在《女性‧土著‧他者》（Woman, Native, Other）一书提到虚构或故事可以言喻真实，而历史则意谓着事实。或许，争论点并不在于故事抑或历史更贴近真实，而是能够理解背后谁有权利书写历史，以及历史、事实以外言说真相的其他可能性。
回到短片中所拍摄的四件物品（按出现次序）：香水玻璃瓶、美少女战士香水瓶扭蛋、魔法少女（我看包装应该是光之美少女）组装玩具（也很像香水瓶）、旧铜制蜡烛座。这些物品亦不断徘徊于真实世界与虚拟世界之间，这些物品哪件属于寻常少女，哪件为魔法少女所拥有？之前的（雕塑和影像）作品也有涉猎魔法少女的形象，我个人亦有收藏相关的玩具，以及其型态让我联想起魔法少女玩具的物品。魔法少女作为一个虚构的存在同样是复杂的，作为一个自女巫衍生而成的流行文化想像，她一方面是经驯化而安全无害的形象，异性恋男性欲望的产物，但魔法少女同时提供了美好而闪亮的幻梦予女孩们，挥动魔法棒，想像我们的（魔法）力量可以带来的可能性多么无远弗届。
Q6: Your have focused on the tragic death of female characters in many literary and artistic works, which is often caused by multiple factors, like the stereotype of women being emotional and impulsive, and the extended argument that "women are obsessed with love," and so on. Where do you think this pattern of portraying fictional female characters comes from?
影片关注了许多文学和艺术作品中女性角色的凄美死亡的结局，这往往有多重因素，比如刻板印象里女性的感性和冲动，延伸出的“女性执着于爱”的论调，等等。您认为这种对虚构女性角色的塑造模式来源于什么？
A6: Male creators have seized the right to speak, and what they have written, depicted, and outlined has become what we recognise as classic, what we recognise as truth. Male creators often project their unrealistic fantasies about girls/women, producing the so-called great masterpieces. We live in a world rife with misogyny, where losing love or refusing to love the heroine often results in her sudden death. Without love, these characters are portrayed as incomplete, with love being the only thing that can make their lives whole.
Looking back at history, women's creations have frequently been criticised as vulgar, unserious, and overly sentimental. Teenage girls who obsess over "Twilight." Creators who write fanfiction. Women have long been drawn to romance fiction, they’re reading the "wrong" book or writing novels that will never be deemed serious literature. They’re often labelled as being brainless, sensual, and love-struck. These conditions are deeply painful and confusing to me, and they have become the driving force behind my art practice.
男创作者把握了话语权，他们书写的、描绘的、勾勒的成为了我们所认知的经典，所认同的真相。男创作者对女性存在许多不切实际的幻想，投射他们的欲望和期望，衍生出所谓严肃而伟大的作品，流芳百世。我们身处的世界，充斥着厌女的情绪。失去爱，或拒绝爱的女主角许多时候将迎接突兀的死亡；没有（异性恋浪漫）爱，她们并不完整，唯有爱，可以让她们的人生完好无缺。
回望历史，女性的创作则总是被批评为通俗的，不严肃的，过度感性的。迷上《暮光之城》的万千青少年少女，写同人小说的创作者；女性总是着迷于言情小说，书写上不了大台的作品。她们总是被贴上无脑、感性、恋爱脑等标签。这些状况令我很痛苦且困惑，亦成为创作的动力。
Hangnail, Hou Lam Tsui, 2024
Q7: Many of the works you mentioned were created by East Asian men. Do you think that the sense of brokenness and sadness that comes from the pursuit of depicting the beautiful death of a woman is related to the particular cultural context of the creator?
您提及的作品很多是东亚男性创作者的作品。您是否觉得，这种在艺术作品中追求女性美丽死亡的破碎感和凄美感的现象，与创作者身处的特定文化背景有关？
A7: Admittedly, the examples cited in this film may not be the most comprehensive; they are conclusions based on the works I have encountered. My observation is that male creators from different cultures often face similar issues in their depictions of women: they romanticise the death of women, which is frequently violent and dramatic, and such death is always beautified.
The English painter John Everett Millais completed his painting "Ophelia" in 1852. Ophelia, heartbroken by Hamlet's ruthlessness and her father's assassination, becomes mentally disturbed and eventually drowns. The lush, vibrant green background of the painting is juxtaposed against Ophelia’s snow-white cheeks flushed with warm blood, and her lips remain bright red. Why does a dying person exude such abundant vitality? In Yasunari Kawabata's "Snow Country," published in 1948, the story ends with the death of a young girl: Yoko falls to her death from a high place, her stiff body suddenly becoming soft. In this moment, the male protagonist looks up at the sky where the infinite sparkling stars pours down on his heart.
Different times and cultural backgrounds surely still offer possibly nuanced differences, but in both cases (the so-called East and West), we can observe that the ending of death has become a gesture of punishing women, and that women's destinies are often reduced to a symbol, serving as tools to advance the story.
诚然，本短片所引用的例子并不能说真的十分全面，不过是依据本人所接触的作品而整理出来的一个结论。就我的观察，不同文化背景的男性创作者笔下所描绘的女性皆有着类似的毛病：浪漫化女性的死亡，女性的死亡通常壮烈的，富戏剧性的，死状总是被美化。
英国画家 John Everett Millais 于 1852 年完成奥菲莉亚画作，奥菲莉亚因哈姆雷特的无情和父亲被刺杀而心碎不已，精神错乱，最终遇溺身亡，画中背景绿意盎然，奥菲莉亚了无死亡的痕迹，雪白脸颊底端透出温热血色，嘴唇仍然鲜红艳丽，将逝之人为何散溢着充沛的生命力？川端康成在 1948 年出版的《雪国》以少女的死亡收结：叶子从高处堕下身亡，僵硬的身体遽然变得柔软，这次男主角抬头望天，无尽闪烁星光向他的心坎上倾泻了下来。
不同的时代，不同的文化背景，创作上或多或少会有不同的差异，但两个例子（所谓东方西方）皆可以观察到死亡成为惩罚女性的一种精神手段，而女性的命运，总是沦为一个符号，成为推进故事发展的工具。
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